Submitted by Mark Gommers (not verified) on Mon, 2019-05-13 10:56, I note that there are numerous errors in your article. With regard to the #1080 Bowline-on-a-bight - this also suffers from certain vulnerabilities. In the first instance, you prefix the word 'the' with 'Bowline' which in fact should be 'a' type of Bowline (not 'the' Bowline). Personally, I would still recommend you to tie a stopper knot, as I have witnessed the loosened Yosemite Bowline over a course of a day. You are just as likely to make a mistake tying a figure 8 knot than with any other 'Bowline'. End on the outside is a variant, like the Double Bowline, Water bowline, Yosemite Bowline, Bowline on a Bight, Spanish Bowline, or any of several others. I can tie it faster than a rethreaded fig-8 and it is still easy to undo after a good lob. The double bowline is one of the typical tie-in knots used in climbing, along with the figure eight follow through [3] [4] and the Yosemite bowline. This finish can also be used with other knots, such as the figure 8. Many modern climbers prefer one of its variants to the standard Bowline because they are supposed to address the disadvantages of the Bowline, especially the first one in the above-mentioned list. Try this : with the Yosemite Bowline, let the to-be-further-tucked (out through collar) tail *swing wide* so that it crosses the main line, AND THEN instead of tucking it on out through the collar, bring it back sharply through the main "nipping" loop; in this way, this further-tucked tail binds against the main line, helping to keep it snug, and it of course is wrapping around the tail. A critical problem is that there is no guarantee the condition holds in a course of a long day, and worse, one will forget checking about it, after tying one, on an odd day, sooner or later â it is just a matter of probabilityâ¦, Submitted by Mark Gommers (not verified) on Thu, 2018-07-26 03:27. Simple to tie, and easy to undo, the beauty of the bowline is that it creates a quick loop secured by a knot that tightens when under load. It has the advantage over the figure eight of being easier to untie after the knot has been weighted. More importantly, I know well, based on my own experience, even the well-set correct Yosemite Bowline can get loose during a course of a day. But it is known that this type of Bowline is not secure - so why base your article on a structure that is already known to be insecure? I have investigated the issue, and presented it in the video in this blog. [5] The advantage of the double bowline over the figure 8 is that it is easier to untie after being weighted in a fall, [3] [4] and so is used by sport climbers who take multiple lead falls and then have trouble untying their figure ⦠It was a Yosemite Bowline that failed on Lynn Hill in France, causing her to careen 70 feet to the base of the climb. !function(d,s,id){var js,fjs=d.getElementsByTagName(s)[0],p=/^http:/.test(d.location)? You should remove your link to the alleged failure mode of Scotts locked Bowline because it is false. Along with the sheet bend and the clove hitch, ⦠For a double bowline mentioned in the linked question there is a technical difference between inside and outside (though I do not know whether it is relevant), but for a bowline on a bight this distinction is not there at all, as both ends are threaded along the whole knot. [8], It is recommended that any knot which is used to attach a rope to a safety harness is always finished with a stopper knot. Double Yosemite bowline – It is a double bowline knot with a Yosemite finish for added security. If so do you also use a stopper knot? Should we ban screw-gate carabiners? The Yosemite Bowline was an attempt to address the insecurity of the simple (#1010) Bowline. I would like to switch to the Yosemite bowline knot. [6] The Mountaineering Handbook is one of the few texts that suggest that the Yosemite bowline is better for this purpose. (Naut.) The two most popular variants, apart from Left-hand Bowline (also called Cowboy Bowline, Dutch Marine Bowline, and Winter Bowline, Ashley's #1034½), among climbers are Double-Bowline (Ashley's #1013) and Yosemite Bowline. Yosemite Bowline. Anyhow, the primary point of the article is that Bowline, including Yosemite Bowline, is much more insecure than Figure-of-Eight, especially in the course of a long day. Double Bowline has two loops instead of one to thread the (end of the) rope through. Double bowline with Yosemite finish. Testing found it a strong knot for the purpose. It has nothing to do with the orientation of the tail as you claim... and your 'wrong-sided' Yosemite Bowline is in fact the correct orientation. The tail should be a minimum of 10cm but depends on the thickness of the rope. How to Tie the Yosemite Bowline. There are actually dozens of different 'Bowlines'. This information is incorrect. Sailors use the bowline to fasten halyards and other rigging which require a super-secure connection. If you are trying to compare the #1047 Figure 8 eye knot against 'a' 'Bowline' - you need to compare it to one of the secure Bowlines. In effect, this is what you are doing. The other tutorial is the standard one that is featured in most of my tutorials. Suggested benefits of the bowline include being easier to untie after loading or when wet and frozen, and being possible to tie-in with only one hand. Edwards Bowline basically adds an extra return to the rope-end to Yosemite Bowline. The knot has day to day application potential, but what I find interesting is its potential as a survival knot. So to make it even more secure, try the Yosemite Tie Off – So #LetsGetKnotting Once the rope end comes undone, what will happen when loaded is obvious, as demonstrated near the end in my video. Jan 20, 2017 - How to tie a running bowline with illustrated and animated examples Double Bowline has two loops instead of one to thread the (end of the) rope through. Why do you ignore the facts? Mark Gommers, Submitted by Eugene Kim (not verified) on Tue, 2020-01-07 06:06. There are many different types of Bowlines. We occasionally use the Yosemite Bowline as a tie-in when we need to untie often, but also use it for hauling objects and creating anchors. It is incredibly strong, easy to untie, and simple to learn, earning it the name "The King of Knots." [7][unreliable source?] It would be invalid to compare against a conventional 2WD car. Additional safety is achieved by tying with a tail (see below). Double end-bound bowline Allan Sanderson wrote: in all of your photos it appears you are tying a left handed bowline (the working end finishes on the outside of the loop).The left-handed, cowboy, or Dutch Navy bowline has gotten bad press over the years---I was taught it was "wrong" when I first learned the bowline. On November 29, Yosemite climbing legend John Long was seriously injured in an accident at a Los Angeles gym when his bowline knot came undone. However, given its complexity, I guess it is less likely to come undone than even Yosemite Bowline, whereas it is definitely more awkward and slower to tie. I think the benefits of the Yosemite bowline (easier to untie, tie one-handed) fail to outweigh the disadvantages for most climbers or climbing situations. A Yosemite bowline is a loop knot often perceived as having better security than a bowline. One is through the story of a rabbit, which is an easy and child friendly way of learning the knot. Here is my video to demonstrate the point â risk of Yosemite Bowline. There are documented accidents of every other version of the Bowline (coming loose even if done correctly), but not one of the Double Bowline. ... (Double ⦠It is basically a classic Bowline Knot with two Overhand Loops, or with an extra wrapping turn around the bight. For extra strength, you can add a Yosemite tie-off to the bowline knot. The cowboy bowline (also left-hand bowline, Dutch marine bowline or winter bowline) is a variation of the bowline loop knot.. I don't want to compare the pros and cons of figure 8, double bowline and Yosemite bowline. I have to add that the Double Bowline (usually called "Bowline on the Bight") is not unsafe and is one of two "official recommended" Knots for tying in in most of Europe. Quote from Masa: 8 (I once read actually safer than fig-8 which has potential to roll in this configuration). The Yosemite Bowline is safe and strong, but harder to inspect. Yosemite Tie-Off. The failure mode is induced by pulling on the tail before the core of the knot has been properly cinched tight. Jul 28, 2018 - Explore Antonio Ribeiro's board "Bowline Knot" on Pinterest. The correct and wrong-handed ways are topologically identical, and so by definition they are interchangeable with an external force. An inherently secure knot is one that does not require any form of 'backup stopper knot' to lock-down the structure. let me less emphatically remark that there are many good ways to tie in, and some of these use variations of the bowline. EDIT2 - Changed Images to avoid more confusion: … Presumably, when you use the word 'Bowline' - you might in fact be referring to #1010 Common Bowline. The only downside to the Yosemite Bowline is that it is more difficult to visually inspect. â Quest for climbing without avoidable risks, Submitted by masa on Wed, 2017-08-02 21:57. Double end-bound bowline Allan Sanderson wrote: in all of your photos it appears you are tying a left handed bowline (the working end finishes on the outside of the loop).The left-handed, cowboy, or Dutch Navy bowline has gotten bad press over the years---I was taught it was "wrong" when I first learned the bowline. While the knot's versatility suggests it as a convenient tie-in for attaching a climbing rope to a climber's harness, the figure-of-eight follow through is the most common choice because it is more widely known and more easily checked. It is sometimes said that if enough of a tail is left to tie a stopper knot, the stopper becomes unnecessary. Checking your tie-in knot is a mission critical action because your life depends on it! Allowed HTML tags:
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- . It has the virtues of being both easy to tie and untie; most notably, it is easy to untie after being subjected to a load. Bowline with yosemite finish and double fisherman's backup is wonderful. This knot is sometimes used as a "tie-in", to attach the rope to the climber's harness, instead of the standard figure eight follow through.It has the advantage over the figure eight of being easier to untie after the knot has been weighted. Bowline's stopper knot sits inside the main loop of the knot, and therefore, when it is used as the tie-in point to the harness, the stopper knot touches and catches a harness and/or other things around it all the time, and hence is more likely to get undone than the one with Figure-of-Eight (n.b., Figure-of-Eight knot, unlike Bowline, does not need a stopper knot in the first place for the purpose of extra strength). Home; Climbing Areas. Seems like the double-bowline (or rethreaded, or whatever it's called when the bowline goes twice through the harness) is safer after all? You can tie back to / belay from the rope loop as with fig. Bowline relies for a part of its strength on an additional stopper knot â in other words, if a stopper knot is not tied (or is undone, as it happens occasionally especially after a prolonged use), it is weaker, and the rope-end may travel through under a high load, even to the point of complete destruction of the knot. The Yosemite bowline is just a simple bowline with a Yosemite finish. Your words 'Figure 8 is far more foolproof than knot XYZ' is a relative concept. Submitted by Mark Gommers (not verified) on Sun, 2018-06-10 03:45. [9], Loop knot often perceived as having better security than a bowline. Submitted by Daniel J (not verified) on Sun, 2018-09-23 09:35. bowline vs double bowline Report this Post. The Double Bowline is also known as the Round-Turn Bowline and often incorrectly called a Water Bowline. You then mislead the reader into thinking that all 'Bowlines' are somehow unsafe (based on the Yosemite Bowline). However, there are still a considerable number of climbers who prefer to use Bowline knot or its variants. Submitted by masa on Fri, 2018-06-15 21:46. You could argue that harnesses with self-locking buckles are far more foolproof than harnesses with manual style buckles. Hephaestus 16 Jul 2012 In reply to stefanfischer: I don't have sound on my 'puter, but I think it's showing that you can mis-tie the yosemite bowline and that the result of that is not a knot. That person simply posted an experience that he was involved with - with a deliberately loosened knot and a deliberately induced snag. I've fallen on this knot over and over, I've used it in 11mm singles and 8.5 doubles and it's always been a champ. Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically. The Yosemite finish can be applied to other bowline variants, such as the double bowline. However, I do not use it during multi-pitch climbing or in winter, because I did notice its tendency to come loose over an extensive period of time, probably after the knot has been rubbed by something surrounding without me noticing. Also, unlike the figure eight, you should pretension the bowline, especially if you use the double bowline as opposed to the retraced bowline on a bight. Essentially, Double Bowline keeps all the basic principles (and hence cons) of the standard Bowline, but advances some of them. It increases the strength of the knot and prevents it from capsizing into a highly dangerous slip knot . Because of the danger of incorrectly tying the Yosemite bowline, it may be safer and less error-prone to use a standard or double bowline with a backup stopper knot added to the tail, such as a double overhand knot tied around the loop.[3][4]. Your video explaining the failure mode of the Bowline with 'Yosemite finish' is incorrect. Bowline Knot | How to tie a Bowline Knot using Step-by-Step ⦠The Yosemite finish can be applied to other bowline variants, such as the double bowline. For long routes (5+ pitches), aid climbing, or ice, I exclusively use the figure 8. Pity the double-loop bowline—it’s getting a terrible rap. i only just realized that i'm using the single bowline instead of the double bowline. If I tie in 20 times per week, I will tie in 1000 times per year, and 100,000 times per century (I won't live so long, but it is just for the sake of estimate). The Double Bowline Knot is an alternative knot for tying into a harness. In fact, some argued it is still strong enough even tied wrong-handedly, referring to a single experiment presented in the UKC forum. The double bowline is one of the typical tie-in knots used in climbing, along with the figure eight follow through and the Yosemite bowline. Safety Knot: A Bowline should be used with great care when climbing. The bowline (/ ˈ b oʊ l ɪ n / or / ˈ b oʊ l aɪ n /) is an ancient and simple knot used to form a fixed loop at the end of a rope. It is fail-proof for the figure 8 case, meaning that if you make it wrong the knot will compensate your mistake by tightening the rope on the correct spots. However, its 'security' is very dependent on the type of climbing rope used. Submitted by KnudeNoggin (not verified) on Thu, 2020-05-07 19:38, Before this runs into another venting verbosity from u-no-hoo, Yosemite Bowline seems to be decently popular in the UK and (I guess) US among climbers. 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